An important regional organization founded 40 years ago, the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) is playing an increasingly key role in the region in both economic and geopolitical issues. Beijing Review's North America bureau recently asked Zachary Abuza, professor of political science and international relations at Simmons College in Boston, about ASEAN's relations with China and the United States.

Beijing Review: China established dialogue with ASEAN nearly 16 years ago, and its ties with the organization's member countries have developed quickly over the past decade as China's influence in the region has grown. What is your take on the close relations between China and ASEAN and China's rising influence in Southeast Asia?

Zachary Abuza: China has dedicated significant resources, both diplomatic and financial, to the ASEAN states. Owing to proximity, China can send its "A-Team" of senior leaders and diplomats to the region on a very regular basis. But I think that the relationship is really being driven by economics. If you look at flows of trade and investment, it is clear that China is driving economic growth in the region. China is not only a large market for Southeast Asian exports, but also now a net exporter of capital.

On the regional integration front, cooperation between China and ASEAN has been expanding under frameworks like "10+1" or ASEAN plus China, "10+3" or ASEAN plus China, Japan and South Korea, as well as the East Asia Summit. How do you evaluate their cooperation?

Frankly, I do not give much credence to "10+1" and "10+3." This is simply a revival of [former Malaysian Prime Minister] Mahathir [bin Mohamad]'s plan to create a regional organization without any American influence. I think this is racist and naive. America is still the largest investor in Southeast Asia, the largest source of investment, and the guarantor of security for several states. The more ASEAN moves to exclude the United States, the more the United States will disengage from the region, which no ASEAN state wants.

ASEAN is keen on developing ties with both China and the United States. What opportunities as well as challenges will this bring to the free trade arrangement between China and ASEAN and between the United States and ASEAN?

ASEAN states do work assiduously to maintain good and strong ties with both China and the United States; none want to be caught between the two. I imagine that at some point there will be a U.S.-ASEAN free trade agreement. But for now, America seems to be focused on bilateral free trade agreements. (One was signed with Singapore a few years ago, and free trade agreements with Malaysia and Thailand are being negotiated.) I don't know why the United States is not pursuing an ASEAN free trade agreement. I imagine it is for two reasons: First, Americans are terrible multilateralists; and second, there are vast economic differences within ASEAN.

The U.S.-led war on terror after the September 11 attacks provided a chance for the United States to return to Southeast Asia. The Bush administration has adjusted its policy toward the region and improved relations with ASEAN members. How will the adjustment of the U.S. ASEAN policy influence China-ASEAN ties?

The United States never left the region. Sure, the two big bases were closed in the Philippines, but Thailand, Singapore and Malaysia all stepped up security cooperation with the United States to keep it "anchored in the region." Singapore built a naval base to American specifications to that end.

The U.S. role/presence in the Philippines is overblown in the media. There are fewer than 500 trainers there, and there is no interest in reestablishing permanent bases. The United States does want to step up its role with maritime security issues, such as with the PSI (Proliferation Security Initiative) and RMSI (Regional Maritime Security Initiative) in the Strait of Malacca.

These things are not inimical to Chinese security. If the United States was sending in squadrons of F-16s or F-22s [jet fighters] to the region, then China should be concerned. But China has the same security concerns in the region as the United States right now:

1) Peace on the Korean peninsula/resolution of the nuclear issue;

2) Halting the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction;

3) Maintaining sea lanes of communication, freedom of the seas; and

4) Halting Islamist terrorism and insurgency.

The U.S. security presence in the region probably benefits China. If you think about something like [the Filipino island of] Mindanao, the United States is helping to make the region more secure, but it is Chinese businesses and traders who will take advantage of that, not American firms.

(Reporting from New York)