Guo Xiaoming, Vice President of Sichuan Academy of Social Sciences

In an exclusive interview with Beijing Review reporter Qiao Tianbi, Guo Xiaoming, Vice President of Sichuan Academy of Social Sciences and a member of Sichuan Provincial Government Science and Technology Advisory Panel, talked about the development of ecological agraiculture in Wenchuan, the epicenter of the devastating 8.0-magnitude earthquake on May 12, 2008.

Beijing Review: The earthquake caused devastating damage to the agriculture of Wenchuan. What kind of process do you think it needs for the recovery?

Guo Xiaoming: To answer this question, we should be clear about the basic geological features of Wenchuan county. As a dry vally with more evaporation than rainfall, Wenchuan is in a severe shortage of water. Located in the upper reaches of Minjiang River, it is both an ecological barrier of the Chengdu Plain and an eco-fragile area. The land along the banks of Minjiang River is seriously desertified. It is extremely difficult to restore the natural vegetation there.

Large-scale agricultural development is not suitable there. Therefore, the agricultural reconstruction should be carried out selectively. Not all the destroyed arable land and irrgation systems need to be restored. In those areas not suitable for agricultural development, we should adopt ecological restoration instead of agricultural reconstruction.

The reconstruction of agriculture should be a shift in the mode of agricultural development. According to the conditions of Wenchuan, ecological agraiculture is a rational choice. It will probably help Wenchuan achieve the dual goals of agricultural development and ecological restoration.

To achieve this, first of all, a scientific regional agricultral development plan is called for. Second, we need to restore and enhance the basic production conditions in areas suitable for agricultural development. Third, we need to carry out the industrial re-configuration, with ecology as the masterstroke.

In other words, we should develop different industries in different areas according to their natural conditions, such as eco-farming, eco-tourism and ecological animal husbandry. In those areas not suitable for agricultural development, we should conduct ecological migration or transfer the population to cities.

Finally, technical support is also necessary. Ecological agriculture is a new concept of development. The local farmers do not have corresponding background knowledge. They need technical support from us.

We should have a sober and rational judgement on Wenchuan's agricultural restoration. We can not expect a modern agricultural system completed in just two or three years.

Many towns in Wenchuan county regard ecological agriculture as their future direction. Do you think this is feasible?

It is promising to develop ecological agriculture in Wenchuan. Despite the poor natural conditions, Wenchuan is rich in sunlight and heat resources. Its gricultural products are of high quality with no pollution.

The local bio-diversity is also amazing. It has low dam, plateaus and mountain as well as a vertical climate. These are all appropriate for developing ecological agriculture.

After the earthquake, Wenchuan's transportation has been dramatically improved, which is good for the delivery of agricultural products. In addition, Wenchuan has unique ethnic cultures, which also added to the favorable conditions of developing ecological agriculture there.

But not all towns can develop ecological agriculture. It should be conducted in the most appropriate areas.

What do you think is the biggest problem of agricultural development in quake zones?

There are a couple of problems. First of all, it is short in arable land. Second, there comes the problem of water resources. It is the biggest bottleneck of its agricultural restoration. In Wenchuan, the cost of establishing irrigation systems is very high, as people living in some sloping fields have to get water from tens of miles away.

Third, the technology is another problem. Ecological agriculture asks for new technology. Local farmers are used to planting corns and potatoes. They are not familiar with planting vegetables, flowers and fruits.

The fourth problem is the scattered small-scale agricultural structure does not live up to the demand of the modern eco-agriculture. Finally, the development of the market system is quite backward in Wenchuan. For instance, cherries are sold mainly by peddlers there. If we sell them concentretedly in the market, they may not sell well.

To develop ecological agriculture, the government should enhance the qualities of the local farmers. We should help them establish sevaral organizations, construct the market system and teach them relevant technologies. The current assistance provided for Wenchuan is mainly focused on infrastructure construction. The aspects mentioned above are not paid enough attention yet.

What is your comment on the Central Government's counterpart assistance plan?

This plan has presented the advantages of China's political system to the maximum. Generally speaking, it is successful, but it can be more efficient.

Agricultural development is a weak part of the counterpart assistance. This is understandable. There is a gap between the needs of the aid provider and the aid receipient. The provider tends to focus on important and large-scale infrastructure construction, while this may not be needed most by the local farmers.

For instance, the farmers need land reclamation and restoration more badly. In addition to the major irrigation systems, small systems also need to be restored. Besides the major roads, a number of trails through the fields also need to be repaired. But it may be impossible to arrange for these projects.

What's more, some aiding prejects exceed the actual local need. Some facilities even boast of being advanced in a hundred years. This kind of practice may cause a waste of resources given a lot of practical problems of the farmers remain unresolved.

It may result from the shortcoming of the counterpart assistance mechanism. The planning and implementation are too reliant on the aid provider. The local communities, villagers as well as the government do not participate enough. As there is no interaction mechanism, the projects chosen by the aid providers reflect their own need more.

The infrastructure in villages with counterpart assistance has been improved greatly. But the local production mode has not improved correspondingly. How should this problem get solved?

The change of production mode will be slow only depending on the inner power of the quake zones. In the restoration process, the counterpart assistance is a very good opportunity. For instance, south China's Guangdong Province is an advanced province with solid foundation of feature agriculture. If it offers its agricultural technology, production mode, product processing and logistics to Wenchuan, it is possible that Wenchuan's agricultural development can be put at a high starting point. Unfortunately, no enough work is done in this area.

The aids are mostly limited in direct hardware reconstruction. Actually, the connotation of them can be expanded. In the early period after the earthquake, the requirement on hardware reconstruction is quite strong, so it is understandable to do so. But now we see more development desire in the quake zones. During the aiding process, not enough attention is paid to the human resource development, the most important part of industrial development.

Is it difficult to fully reflect the need of the aid receipient under the counterpart assistance mechanism?

No, I don't think so. Our counterpart assistance has yet to form a mechanism allowing the goals of the supply side and the needs of the recipient to be fully discusssed on a platform.

This is like the poverty alleviation program. In the past, we adopted the relief style in which the recipient just took what the provider gave. But now we take a participation style. The beneficiary people are allowed to choose and implement the project, so that they can continue to benefit from the projects sustainably.

Will it be better if the Central Government directly give the funds to Sichuan Province or the local government of Wenchuan?

We can't put it that simply. The aid provider will have concerns about where the capital flows to if the money is directly given to the local governemnt. The key point is we should transfer the decision-making power on resource allocation, projects implementation and benefits distribution to the villagers. And we allow the villagers to establish a couple of organizations to discuss how to carry out the projects.

This is the most efficient way. It can prevent the loss of resoures during the process. Currently, some projects may have not med the needs of the local villagers at the maximum. It is a kind of waste.

Now that of the three years of counterpart assistance, two years has passed. So there is not enough time to complete the mechanism you mentioned.

For the part of Sichuan Province, of course they hope this process can be continued. They proposed to change the counterpart assistance to counterpart cooperation. They aim to transform the past supply for free to cooperation in industrial development, so as to achieve a win-win result.

As the recipient areas has unique resources, such as green agricultural products. If the depth-development of these products can be conducted well, they can also enter the market of the aid providers, satisfying their demand on green and specialty agricultural products.

Will it need the Central Government to push for its implementation and continuance?

It will be difficult for the aid providers and Sichuan province to push for this. To achive the change from counterpart assistance to counterpart cooperation needs efforts of the Central Government.

Is this a defect in the system setting in the prior period?

I suppose so. But it is understandable under the circumstances then.

Do you think the counterpart assistance can be developed into a long-term mechanism?

It can be replicated. It just needs some improvements. Its sustainablity will be challenged if it only depends on political requirement without a regional cooperation mechanism. In addition, the quake zones should be granted the right to choose. In this way, we can save money and become more efficient.

Currently, the aid providers get nothing in return, but actually it should be win-win for both sides. The complementarity does exist between easetern and western China. The eastern China is advanced in product processing but severly short in resources. The western China is relatively backward in the processing industry. What's more, the eaurthquake stricken area has abundant mineral, water and electricity resources. It can be promising to build a win-win mechanism there.

What are the differences in terms of agriculture between the eastern and western China? What kind of role will the counterpart assistance play in agricultural development for both of them?

The biggest difference lies in their input capacity. Generally speaking, the level of agruicultural development in the eastern part is quite high. The adjustment of agricultural structure is proceeding well. Low-level agricultural products have almost been replaced by those with high added value. Those products call for high input, and their industrial chains are all extending.

But in the mountainous and hilly areas in the western part of Sichuan, most of the agriculture is still traditional small-scale agriculture, with only a few acres of land per capita.

What is your comment on the construction of new countryside in quake zones?

As far as I see it, new countryside construction is an example of concentrating resources in particular areas, because most rural areas in China do not have conditions for such construction. New countryside construction should combine counterpart support with the development of environmental protection and public service to narrow down the gap between rural and urban areas. Safety, water, transport, education, medical insurance, pension insurance and minimum guarantee allowances are what we really need for the construction.

What is your opinion on the overall planning and industrial layout of Wenchuan?

Regional development planning should go first. But it is not a top-down process, and outside experts cannot make this plan for it in a short time. Generally speaking, local officials and countrymen are clearer about the function of each villages and towns in Wenchuan. At present, a worship of foreign things is spread among people.

Although experts from Beijing has made some advanced planning, I doubt that it is not practical enough for us. According to my investigation, all the planning is carried out by local people eventually. So if they just play a passive role in the planning, a deviation of the original planning may happen in the final construction.

In my opinion, the industrial planning should be a combination of the upper and the lower. Also, the participation of local people in the planning will create a channel for them to acquire important information.

What do the think Wenchuan will be like in the future?

In the past, the industrial layout of Wenchuan was a dual structure combining high-energy-consuming industries with traditional agriculture. Located in the upper reaches of Minjiang River, Wenchuan is the ecological barrier of Chengdu Plain. High-polluting and destructive industry is not appropriate for this area. Moreover, the agricultural development should combine ecological agriculture and ethnic resources, making Wenchuan a tourist spot in Chengdu-Jiuzhai routine, one of the most famous sightseeing routines in Sichuan.